"Modernising" the way we run things...

[Snowflake]

Hey lovelies

I am enjoying my year off but I do want to get back into it. What I want to do though is propose a new way of running things.. "Modernising" I guess For a long time we've decided our grades by how many wins a horse has. I think it's time to try a new system that will make more sense with knocking workouts out. Follow the link below and let me know what you think (please post here)

barriertrials.freeforums.net/thread/2/barrier-trials

[creativecause]

Personally, I love how the game is currently. I would rather we leave the stats as they are and limit workouts to just the required HOTY races. Not the idea is bad or anything, I just don't find it as appealing as the current system we have right now.

[Snowflake]

Would you be willing to do a trial CC? On the forum I've posted on, with new horses?

[LK]

Snowy, this actually is similar to something I was looking to use on my show site. Instead of making a new site with new racehorses, we can try it out on Stonebrook Acres with the retired racehorses. That way members don't have to create new racehorses for a trial. If we decide to, I do have a few questions as to how we determine the "stats".

[Snowflake]

Sounds good to me Lacee - only thing is we wouldn't be adding to retired racehorses records so that's why i thought start a whole new bunch of creates and then we can bring them over. I was thinking just randomize based upon grade. eg Bank on Silver is grade one so she would remain grade one with stats randomized in the grade one range of 91-100 and full training/exp of course.

[LK]

No we wouldn't be adding to their racing record, but they would be starting with brand-new showing stats that would be completely separate than the racing ones. So in a way they would be starting from scratch but it wouldn't effect their racing record at all. I like the idea, as the "training" is something I was trying to come up with in-leu of workouts.

[Isabelle]

Well I think the idea of a point type system isn't a bad one, however I'm not sure about what you proposed, it seems a little bit confusing to me. Not to mention if things like determination and speed are set, that almost isn't fair. Everyone has off days or on days, and a horse one day might not be feeling the best and can go a speed of 70 but another day have a burst and through extra will to win go to say 75. As I see it if most of those stats are randomized or averaged from parents then you might get horses that could never reach G1 ever, and some might start out at G3 or something, unless I don't see this quite right.

Honestly it actually I think would hurt horses, as then only horses with the best stats would ever win and it wouldn't leave room for underdogs to go. What about a *special* unknown horse that rises from the ranks of nothing to become a HOF horse? I don't see this as possible with this system as most stats are now set for life.

One of the best things about this game, is during writing workouts or creating horses, they have the top speed. They are top of their game, they have the drive to win and can do it. In this format I can see myself going okay so my horse doesn't have the best speed, and isn't good with stamina, but he has drive to win . . . so I can no longer write a workout like my horse is as I want him to be in my imagination, only as he is on paper. Kinda discouraging . .

I'd rather see points awarded for races to show racing grade, or make the racing grades tougher and more wins needed. Like say

Maiden-0
Grade 5-1
Grade 4-5
Grade 3-10
Grade 2-15
Grade 1-20

I'd really rather just keep things as is with the workout change at least for one racing year, and then maybe when you and frosty are officially back and things settle down after summer for people you could go more in depth or we could all create say two or three practice horses and have a separate race board just for the new system and see how it goes rather than try to change the entire game overnight.

[Snowflake]

Yes the stats are set for life, to a degree. Horses won't start out at G1 though given their training and experience stats and this means they can still climb through the grades. I think it will make things easier in that not every horse has the potential to become a HOF horse and we can fill all the grades. The races themselves still won't be randomized - a judge would decide how they want to weight each stat to decide the winner As for workouts, you could still do them. Maybe we could make it so that workouts can give a boost to stats. There would need to be a limit to that though.

I'd rather see points awarded for races to show racing grade, or make the racing grades tougher and more wins needed. Like say

Maiden-0
Grade 5-1
Grade 4-5
Grade 3-10
Grade 2-15
Grade 1-20

This is actually what I want to get rid of. Because real life grades aren't based on the number of wins a horse has, and a horse itself isn't actually graded. The horse enters a grade of race based on ability.

[Sammy]

In all to me this all confusing slightly I like the site the way it is how things are I enjoy how things are done it's what brought my attention to the site or one of them anyway. If you create a whole new system and we have to create new horses what happens to the work we put into the horses we already have? It's cool to add a twist to things but not everyone may agree. :-)

[Isabelle]

Well if we don't have grades anymore then you are changing the entire racing roster as well. I have no clue how we can understand caliber of horses then. I don't like those big changes as I'm here for the game as it is. Minor changes and tweaks yes, but I've never played or heard of that game and don't like what little I understand. I'm sorry I'm not trying to be mean but I may not stay with the game under these proposed changes as it sounds like a lot of extra technical stuff that I don't do well in or enjoy.

[Snowflake]

It's not a whole new system but an update. We are not starting all over. We are not getting rid of grades, we are changing the way we grade a horse and judge races. The only thing that would change is adding the stats system and getting rid of workouts.

Also I'm not going to make this happen if the majority don't like the idea. But honestly if workouts aren't totally thrown out (as a judging necessity) then I don't think I can come back and actually enjoy being back. I just feel that if we don't have some sort of system in place without workouts then it's just not going to work. And I can't come back if workouts are going to get out-of-control, needed-for-every-race-just-to-not-come-last again. That's the whole reason I needed this break..

[*Ripley*]

I do hope you come back Snowflake because the game is so much better than where we were at when you left. We don't do workouts for every race anymore. It just wasn't possible with us all growing up and living our lives. We only do workouts for specific HOTY races, not all.

These races are listed below:

Dawn Treader Cup
Spring Dawn Treader Cup
Summer Dawn Treader Cup
Autumn Dawn Treader Cup
Winter Dawn Treader Cup


Spring/Summer Races


Dubai World Carnival
Dubai World Championship
Dubai World Sprint
Dubai World Mile
Dubai World Marathon (coming to you in Year 16)


Triple Crown
Kentucky Derby
Preakness Stakes
Belmont Stakes

Triple Tiara
Acorn Stakes
Mother Goose Stakes
Coaching Club American Oaks

Turf Triple Crown
Kentucky Open
Preakness Champion Stakes
Belmont Turf Classic

Turf Triple Tiara
Debutante Stakes
Cotillion Stakes
Duchess Stakes

Canadian Triple Crown
Queens Plate
Prince Of Wales
Breeders' Classic

Major Sprinting 3yo Races
Turf Crown/Tiara
So Sassy Sprint* - F
Turquoise Sprint*
Daisy Stakes* - F
Highway Stakes*
Butter Cup Sprint* - F
Superstar Sprint*

Dirt Crown/Tiara
Shining Stakes* - F
Tick Tock Sprint*
Purple Rose Stakes* - F
Red Wine Sprint*
Starshine Sprint* - F
Speedway Stakes*




Fall/Winter Races

Red Mile Series
One workout for the whole series

Green Mile Series
One workout for the whole series

Twilight Stakes

Youth Challenge
Just A Trot Futurity*
Gallop To The Gallows Stakes*
The Youth Challenge*

Turf Challenge
Golden Slipper Stakes*
AJC Sires Produce Stakes*
Champagne Stakes*

Dubai World Cup

World Turf Cup

Older Dirt Series
Who's More Youthful
Kiss Your Title Stakes
Senior Superstars Finale

Older Turf Series
Caufield Cup
Cox Plate
Melbourne Cup

Breeders Cup



There is a possibility of Kenren's Battlestone Down's hosting a long distance series for three year olds, but like the red mile/green mile, the series will only require one workout for the entire span.


And we'd also have everyone do workouts at the beginning of the year for those horses that won't be entered in HOTY races requiring workouts. Which means, some horses will only have one workout per the entire year anyway. Significantly, cutting workouts down.


Now as for modernizing GHF/TW/BSD...

I do like the overall idea that you have. It's not that confusing, except I hope everyone's math skills and calculator are up to par. However, it is confusing as to how we determine the skills of the parents. Most every older horse has hit G3+ prior to retirement. How can we say they're different besides most of them not ending up in the hall of fame? Like I can some things interchanging with surface and stamina. Obviously a horse with sprinter parents will have a low stamina rating. Which is fine, people will just have to understand the translation.

Personally, I don't think determination should be a category. I think a written personality should be a stand in for that.

Training... I think that could be mixed with workouts and age. Some horses don't peak until 4+ these days like Flawed Princess, Handsome Tabby, Alluring Assault. If there training is supposed to peak at four, they never really have a shot.

I'm more open to the idea than most, but I still need ideas as to how we are going to judge the parents of said horses.

[LK]

I really do like the idea of having another way to judge things that are not based off of workouts, and this seems to give a good way AND makes the site a little more realistic. But like Ripley said, it's gonna be very hard to determine retired racers stats and slightly confusing to switch horses over that are still racing. If we can figure out a way to switch over smoothly, I would be up for trying it out. I know that there will be bumps along the way that we would have to figure out, but all the more reason to give it a try on another site before we even attempt to bring it to GHF/TW.

[Cavallo]

I think that with the changes we've made in workouts, you should definitely be able to come back Snowy.

As for this new system, I can see some merit to it, but I'm worried mainly about what Ripley is saying here in the translation of stats to horses currently and those retired. Most of my breeding stock is already Grade One, so how would that pan out?

I also see Isabelle's point here. This will cap horses in races and chances for "underdog" horses will be limited severely, granted I know we will still have judges to have final discernment, but this won't be as favorable to newer members who come in.

I think Ripley also raises a valid point with the older horses. This would need to be explored a bit more I think if you're dead set on implementing something like this.

So as of right now, I'm not really leaning in favor of this, but I'd be willing to discuss this and flesh it out a bit more.

[Isabelle]

Frosty has asked me to speak for her in this thread until she can officially come back.

"I am entirely against the idea. In the past we used forms for judging and I really much prefer the workouts and other things. Adding stats and removing workouts entirely steals the life of the game. I've played here for so many years because we have life in the form of workouts. Yes, we needed to cut down workouts, and we've done that. I like the way things are now, exactly the way things are now. It's not hard to keep up with workouts. We don't stick to a specific calendar so it's easy to ask for more time to write workouts before races run. Without workouts, I might as well be playing an automated game. I already play one of those; GHF/TW/BSD provide a unique new outlet. Add stats? We become just like all of the other games out there.

Breeding wise, adding stats to producing foals is a bad idea. Your grade five stud will never produce anything spectacular, will he? Bye-bye, stud record of Touch Up and all the others like him. You might argue that with a lot of work that foal will become something good; this is already the case, I believe, and we don't need stats to justify it.

I like the grading system and think it works well. Grade one is still highly coveted, and I do believe it shows the quality of a horse because after 13 wins your horse is considered some kind of good. I don't see any problems with this. I really don't see the need for change, to the point that I'm not even willing to test it out. I just don't like the idea lol.

I am in favor, one hundred percent, of keeping things the way they are now and not eliminating workouts entirely. Please don't decide on anything concrete until I come back and can participate fully in this discussion XD"

___________________________________________

I agree with her and what I've said before, I think we've worked so very hard on our horses so far that to destroy this system will destroy their careers. I thought we were going to be doing one workout per horse per year, with extras for the special races, and that would solve the problem of time for workouts. As I mentioned in TW thread, we have all year to do the yearling's works for the next year as time goes on, which will help at the end of the year.

I still stand that the new system will do away with or severely limit a horse's ability to rise from nothing and reach the top. Everybody will be breeding only the best horses to get as high to the 100 mark as possible, leaving the lesser horses and creates with little to no chance. And then we'd all just have 100 level horses running around and we'd be back where we started wondering how to judge races :/

I don't think we judge races based solely on workouts anyway, most people read them once or twice then remember them or just know how a horse feels and judges races fairly fast. After you judge the same horse a whole bunch of times and go through it's career I think there is a memory there of how a horse works with others. I personally base wins with current racing season, past racing years, overall experience, personality, and how the field is. If there is no front runner with two closers, the one who is forced to lead won't be as happy say, and that may affect their performance in the race-and maybe not. When I judge I take all of those things into consideration, and use workouts as a guide for personality, experience, and how they go during a run, what they are upset with and what they do well with, to determine race outcome.

Add in note: I'm in this game and have stayed (besides because of you all) out of one thing - hope. This game lets me hope, in a past of horrid bullying and terrible deaths and no friends and being ostracized by society . . . in this game I can hope. I can get up the next day and think, "Oh! Races run today! Maybe I'll get a win " and I can't wait to play. All four of my original creates are almost grade one, and I'm so proud of them! I've taken years to get them there through twists and turns and wrong paths but in the end, I stuck with it and kept trying. And I have that hope. This is the only game of this kind I play on the computer anymore, I never stick with the automated games as you only try to get the very best horses to breed or own because they always win. I'm not here to be a loser, I'm here because I have hope that I can be a winner. When Moonlight won the triple tiara this year I actually cried because I felt like a winner-something that I never, ever get to feel in my life. I'm not trying to be over reactive here, sorry if this seems waaayy over the top, but it's the truth. You have a whole bunch of people who stick together for YEARS here, that in itself is something truly special, and something most games don't have. I say don't mess with a good thing.

[Kenren]

I don't find it confusing necessarily, but I'm pretty comfortable with the way things are right now. I like being able to take horses from nobody parents and still make them great. I feel like we've finally hit this happy spot where even busy people can fully participate, anddddd idk.

[creativecause]

I'm in agreement with Frosty, Kenny and Isa with this one. I like this game because it's different, adding stats only makes it just like games like Howrse and they aren't nearly as fun. We are one of the few racing sims out there that has lasted this long, and why? Because we are different.

[Cavallo]

I'm thinking things are leaning towards a "no" with the stats.. xD

[Cruisey]

I am super late to this conversation, but after reading through everyone's comments I have to unfortunately vote no (sorry don't kill me xD). I somewhat have dyslexia when it comes to numbers and I honestly couldn't see myself adding up random stats and not really knowing where they came from. But it IS a cool idea, and coming from a person who owns the PS2 Gallop Racer it is a lot of fun. BUt we also have to think GHF/TW/BSD are really unique and not like any other race games out there!

[Snowflake]

I'm glad the idea hasn't been shot down by everyone I get that everyone thinks the game has stayed around as long as it has because we're unigue. I think it's more that we have a strong member base. I think everyone posting in this thread has been around for at least a year, some many years and some have been but gone and come back again. I would like to see the game evolve so that we can continue even when life gets in the way. GHF is not going to become automated. I could never be good enough to code that lol. I don't think we'll become any bigger either so it would never be like howrse or whatever - it stays fun when you can actually win

I think we should do a trial (not everyone has to participate but they should at least observe) with new horses and work out how creating horses would work and new members would go about building their stables. What I was thinking with this is give them 5 or so new create horses, one that could be grade one, one that could be grade two, one that could be grade three, etc. They could choose ages and genders and still write up their personalities and choose surface and distance. Then of course they could always buy or be given nice ones too.

As for breeding maybe there could be rewards for advertising (or workouts?) that mean a grade five stallion could throw foals with G3 or better stats without a mare of that grade. Maybe we could still use the wins system in some way for this as well

To make a smooth transition I wouldn't be expecting everyone to come up with stats for their retired horses. I would be going off the parent's grade and other offspring for new prospects and 2yos starting

For those who aren't good at math we'll post a step by step tutorial for calculating the average of stats and grade