OVER-RACING?

[Lolly]

Hello! So as a new member I was pretty thorough in reading the guide, and I wanted to do things properly and give my horses the best chance to succeed. But it's come to my attention that not everybody has the same understanding as far as over-racing is concerned. The guide reads:
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OVERRACING

It is possible to overrace your horse - and you don't want to do that, because the judge may notice and place your horse lower than he or she normally would place on account of tiredness. Overracing is defined as racing three or more weeks in a row - for examples, if my horse raced May Week One, May Week Two and May Week Three. It is recommended that you race no more than two weeks in a row. After that second week, rest your horse for at least one week before racing again. It is possible and not considered overracing if you race three times in one month - you would have to race two weeks in a row, break for a week, then race again.



Acceptable: Race May Week One, May Week Two, May Week Four

Unacceptable: Race May Week Two, May Week Three, May Week Four

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I personally like this, as I think if the game gets too slow it might deter new members - you know how it is when you first join somewhere, you want things to move quickly or you might lose interest. At the same time, I'm easy either way and I think the long term members should have the real say in this. Some people may not have enough time to enter their horses so frequently, and that may give people who can be online more an advantage. But for the sake of consistency and making sure we are all on the same page, can we please try to come to a global recognition of what Over Racing is?

I personally would not like to follow the guidelines and then be penalized for it.

Some people think horses should only race twice in a month. Others have been doing as the guide says, and perhaps being penalized for it? 

Ripley mentioned that 2yo's probably shouldn't race three times in a month, I think that's realistic. Do any of you want to have some input?

I suppose the ultimate question here is: Is the guide correct and are we all following it?

[Isabelle]

Scotia races her horses without fail twice every month, with no breaks.

Sammy seems to race her horses 6-12 times per year.

Members like Frosty, Ripley, and Kenren seem to race about 12-18 times per horse, per year.

Some fields I judge have say are all grade 4, with one horse having 38 races, two having about 22 races, and one having 10 races. To me, this is extremely hard to judge experience wise, as horses are not being raced consistently but all qualify to enter the same race.

I also find horses who are racing minimally are achieving greater success than those who are racing maximally. Meaning horses with 12 races are year are hardly placing out of the money and ones who are racing 20+ in a year struggle to get wins.

If you are saying in the rules that horse is allowed to race 36 times in a year, then that gives a substantial advantage to horses who are racing with no breaks or horses who are only racing 12 times per year. Or is it the reserve, based on observations I've noticed and listed above? If you are going to allow horses to race three times per month, then perhaps put a cap on the number of yearly races a horse can enter rather than a monthly set, as this is confusing to say you can race three times in a month and your horse is not tired.

I personally will get notices of my tired horse in this instance: My horse won a HOTY race last week, the first race he ran after a two or three week break. The next week he placed fourth in a HOTY race, and I was told he was much too tired from the previous week to place the week after, even with a good break of several weeks prior to these two races, and he would be breaking the following one or two weeks after. I was penalized for a tired horse, when according to the above rules, he clearly shouldn't be. For more visual:

Break
Break
HOTY Race win
HOTY last place as horse was too tired
Break
Break
Race

So I do not understand where the tired horse comes from. We need a firm this is how many horses a horse can race in one year if you're letting people race three times in one month.

What constitutes a tired, in need of a break horse? For success how many races should a horse have in one year, and how often and long should breaks be for them? The overracing rules need more clarification.

[Kenren]

When it comes right down to it, I think that racing two times a month and never more than two weeks in a row is the only fair way to do this now that there are so many horses. If we do three races in a month, regardless of breaks in between, it can lead to the same horses winning race after race, especially in, say, three year old series preps, when there needs to be a bit more variety and chance for everyone to just make the whole dang thing interesting.

If we start trying to dictate 'three races in a month is fine as long as x amount of break time is allowed before/after' it's just too confusing and easily done wrong and then people get upset and it's just too much to bother with. 24-25 races in a year tops is fine. We're already unrealistic with two races a month anyway but pushing the envelope to three is just over-much.

[Isabelle]

I agree with Kenren, two races per month maximum, and no racing three weeks in a row.

March W1
March W2
March W3

is same as

March W5
April W1
April W2

If we start racing three times a month our races will be very flooded. I think the possibility of racing three times in one month should be removed from the rules.

[S u N f r O s t ~]

I typically race mine twice a month and give them two to three months off a year (not all in a row, though). I would consider the following acceptable:

February Week One: Race
February Week Two: Race
February Week Three: Break
February Week Four: Race
March Week One: Break
March Week Two: Race

However, I have noticed that I've stopped racing horses thrice in one month. I would be open to changing the rule to let horses run no more than twice a month, or very rarely three times provided that there is at least one week's break in between the races. I think we can universally agree that three times in a row is a no-no.

[*Ripley*]

I would argue that horses running in HOTY races should stick to twice a month. Undercards I don't think it should matter so much as they fluctuate anyway. Just hope everyone realizes it gets a lot emptier at the top so filling races will be tough, especially later in the season when there are major HOTY races every week. I don't think there are a lot of top level horses left without Cav's army, especially in major divisions like the turf handicap division.

I'd rather run in full races at the top level then twos or three horse fields. I really don't like having this conversation over and over again either though xD. I just don't like how authoritarian these rules are getting to be. Not trying to argue because if I'm in the minority it doesn't matter anyway.

To the point that Isabelle made about fields being made of horses with 38 races, 22 and 10, I don't think that's an accurate representation for all of racing. That's only a concern for undercards and honestly, some people skip racing horses for a half a season or a whole year so why should other members be penalized for that. That doesn't account for the fact that some people don't start racing horses until the age of 3 or 4 either. Horses typically gather race experience over multiple seasons as well. Some horses do better when they race more, some do better when they race less.

The challenge of this game is to figure out where to place your horses because it's not clear cut and dry. That's the fun of it.

On another note: I think there are too many efforts going on to fix the website or 'make it go faster'. The website has lasted for over 10 years through a variety of people and admins, I certainly don't see it going down the drain as quickly as people are saying. I understand that people are frustrated, but these hiatuses and slow downs have happened before so I'm not that worried. I'm not trying not to cater to the new people, but what about the older members who have poured a lot into this sim world?

I wouldn't say overracing is a problem. I would say that its a learning curve for everyone who is pretending to train a roster of racehorses. We all had to go through these bumps. I'd say we're more fair to new members now in terms of judging than we were in Y12 when I returned from my break. Please stop trying to "fix" the website because I really don't see what's broken about it.

*Note this has nothing to do with the move to Final Furlong, but grievances I've witnessed in the cbox.

[Kenren]

I just don't really particularly care, but just on the note of their not being enough top-level horses, I would argue that limiting number of races per month help to create more top horses. Spitterfly wouldn't be a HOTY horse if it wasn't for the fact the fields spread a bit. I'm not saying that I want little fields - but some smaller fields initially will create larger HOTY fields in the long run, especially for the biggest end of year races. There will be more qualified horses.

[Lolly]

Thanks to you all for your input, though it seems we haven't entirely come to an agreement as yet. I completely understand Ripley's point of view, GHF has been holding its own for a long time and doing just fine. I want to say Ripley that I hope you don't think I'm trying to 'fix' the site, as a new member I purely just want to have the right understanding and ensure I'm not being penalised unknowingly for racing more than twice a month, if I were to choose to. :-)

So, what's the verdict? It seems even with the 3 races per month rule, most people only race twice. Shall we agree with Ripley in that Over Racing isn't really an issue here and leave it up to members to decide how much they want to race their horses - once, twice, three times or not at all? Without being penalised. It is after all, the current rules as they stand. Or is there going to be concerns of disadvantages? Can the admin team decide what they want to happen here? I feel like this discussion has gone way beyond anything I can help resolve. xD

[S u N f r O s t ~]

I like what Ripley said. The universal rule we can agree on here is that racing three weeks in a row is a no-no. Racing six times in two months is also probably a no-no. I generally race twice a month, and that seems to be what plenty of other people do...three times in one month, with a week's break in between, is fine by me. I know that Isa penalizes for three times in one month, and that's her preference. It's just a risk I'm aware of when entering races, and I like that she sees it that way and I see it one way. Does it make for some inconsistency? Maybe. I just like what Ripley said about figuring out where to place your horses. That fits a lot of what we do in this SIMverse. It means things aren't cut and dry, but like she said that kind of makes it fun! Though it can be frustrating.

Maybe just decide don't-race-three-weeks-in-a-row and leave it at that?